Talk:Darnussians
Okay, time to gather up all the info from the ethnicities Wow, it says right there on the first sentence that Darnussians are from Narikaton? I always thought it was the other way round, which makes much more sense anyway as Darnussians are considered to be "white people" who generally come from North- and Middle-Artania, Luthori, Ikadron, Dundorf etc. Pre-Darnussians came from the birthplaces of "white people" thousands of years BCE to the mainland. And then from there, migrated to Narikaton and Shirmania. The Jews had already migrated to Shirmania. Now there is a way to get around that sentence, which is the fact that how do we define Darnussians? In the modern day it was simple after the Civil War, Darnussians lived on the mainland, while Narikatonites lived on the islands. However before that, everyone was Darnussian. I don't think the Narikatonies had anything against being Darnussians before that and the language dispute, as the Darnussian name was created by them, by Darntus. So basically it is true, Darnussians came from the islands, as Narikatonites were the first to call themselves Darnussians, but the term was also used for Kozari and Alkavonians when they were joined to the Kingdom. It is actually pretty interesting and realistic how the term later evolved into synonyme of the mainlanders, as it had been meant for the Narikatonites in the beginning. Some stuff that I know already about the Narikatonite ethnicities: * At some point, people came from Beluzia to Narikaton. They were known as Nordes and Öster-people. As Narikaton is pretty far from the mainland, directly under Beluzia, it would be stupid to believe that only Kozari and Alkavonians came to the island. It is more likely that people came from Beluzia, however they weren't necessarily Beluzians, they could have been anyone who were just passing by. Actually I have considered that the Öster-people are related to Kazulians, which explains the great use of nordic letters such as Ä Ö Ë Å in Narik and names of places in Narikaton. When the mainland Kozaris came to Narikaton, they mixed a lot, but the Nordes and Öster remained in some ways as their "own people". From that mixture the Narikatonites were born. That differed them from the Shirmanians, who were genetically more pure Kozaris. In the end, Nordes and Öster-people had merged completely with the Narikatonites. * Shirmanians mixed with the Jews of course. * When the Narikatonites took over Shirmania, they started to mix. The mixture had already began as the two islands traded a lot. * When we get to year 1000, everyone on Narikaton and Shirmania except the Jews and Half-Jews are considered to be Narikatonites. * So basically, the Narikatonite genepool is a mixture of Kozari(which is by far the greatest), Norde, Öster and Jewish people, but in the modern times there aren't nearly any genetical differences between the "mainlanders" and the Narikatonites after thousands of years of shared history. Some stuff that I know from the "mainlanders": * They were not the same people in the beginning neither, as there were Alkavon Tribals and Kozari. * Both languages, Narik and Darnus, are based on the original language known as Kozer, that was spoken by the early Kozaris. * The Kozari came from the northern and middle Artania and are generally considered purely "white people". So they should be related to Luthorians, Dundorfians, Ikadronians, Hobrazians, Alorians and etc. Dundorf could be the place where they left as Kozer and Darnus resemble their language quite a bit. * Who were the Alkavon Tribals? * Who are the Semites? * How does the large Lusitânian minority living in Alkavon fit in this and when did they come there? Here something that I would propose for the "Alkavon Tribals: * They actually share the same origins as Lusitanians, but lived on the mainland instead of the small islands, which makes them more "vulnerable" to blending with the Kozari. Lusitanians however were spared from this on their Islands. The original Alkavon-people (and Lusitanians) share the same origins with Davostani (who are basically Spanish) and they must have come to the land first, before the great migration of peoples began in Artania and drowe the Kozaris to Darnussia. While the Lusitanians remained untouched at their islands, the Alkavonians were mixed with several populations even before the Kozari arrived. I think this whole page should be rewritten completely. I agree, total rewrite is in order Let's break this down, first, into tribal movements, then work our way back forward: Tribal and Pre-Tribal movements Proto-Artarians spread across the entire continent in prehistory, essentially being the ancestors of everyone from Malivia to Endralon and Dorvik. That part of history basically overlaps with everyone else, and isn't subject to much rewriting by us. (While we're on the continential level, may want to glance at Artania - particularly towards the geography and climate issues that influence us - we're essentially Tropical on the mainland, and Mediterranean on the Islands - and most of our mainland borders are mountains, which we don't particularly show well on the Kozaria/Artania or national maps. That's a minor change, though, I think) Early Artarians entered Kozaria and Alkavon in prehistory, as part of the human migration throughout the continent, probably spreading in from whereever humans originated in Terra. Essentially, these proto-Kozarians are not well differentiated - you can't really tell an early Malivian from an early Kozarian from an early Bailonese. Adapting in your Lusitanian idea wouldn't be hard - it would have been two seperate movements - the early one (Lusitanians) and the latter one (Kozaris), with the Lusitanian islands surviving as distinct because of seperation, while the mainlanders did not. Populating the islands Early Kozarians were prolific fishermen, using small canoes and similar primitive boats to fish in the Bay of Migrant. When a storm would come through, some of these sailors might be tossed out to Shirmania or Narikaton. Bailonese and Malivians would also have this happen to them, although Bailonese were more likely (as they also have relatively sheltered, and thus generally calm, sea areas, while Malivia's coastline is pretty directly exposed to the full ocean). Bailonese would be preferentially shipwrecked on Narikaton, while Kozarians would end up on either island about equally. Survivors would have no way to get back, so they become the proto-Narikis (Bailonese influence) and Shirmanians (no Bailonese influence). The Lusitanians were also Kozarian, Bailonese and/or Malivian fishermen - by chance their wreck ended up on the Migrant Islands, rather than on the big islands. Unlike their bretheren on the larger islands, Lusitania has no influx of new blood over the years, as it's much harder to hit these islands by accident. They form an isolated culture, spreading across the tiny archipelago, and coming to believe their four islands are the entire world. Their language and culture develop separately from the rest of Artania's. Early Jewish migration? As we have our history currently: At some point, Semitic (Jewish) migration arrives from the West, crossing the mountains into Kozaria, while at the same time civilization ideas (the agricultural revolution) spreads in from the North, from the fertile valleys there. The problem with this pre-history is it doesn't match the Semitic Migrations page, which suggests the Jews came from Squibble and ended up in Seleya - Beitenyu is as close as they ever got to Darnussia. Essentially what we're looking at for the Migrant's Pass to work, is that the actual Jews arrived later. Much later. And they used Migrant's Pass not to exit Darnussia, but to enter it. Which means the Jews were latecomers to Darnussian culture, rather than early progenitors of it. It does make Clenon the logical Jew-heavy province, as it's closest to Beitenyu, however. Agricultural and Oceanic Revolutions The earliest civilizations in Darnussia originated on the islands, rather than the mainland, as the knowledge spread in from Bailon, probably from shipwrecked Bailonese farmers who were transporting grains to market along their coastline when they became lost at sea, and wrecked on Narikaton. Their ideas spread into Narik tribal society, and transformed it quickly into an entire culture of farmers and city builders. The Narik civilization was born. The Nariks also develop writing around this time, probably based on Bailonese writing. In contrast to the Narikis, the Shirmanians were more heavily dependent on the sea for food - perhaps because of the last eruption of Mount Shirmania killing off much of the interior's wildlife and vegetation. This forced the Shirmanians to become the first true Darnussian sailors (well, oarsmen), as their dependence on the sea increased. This brings Shirmania into contact with the rest of Darnussia, western Malivia, and southern Bailon, and brings trade. The Narikis get sailing from the Shirmanians, and also become prolific traders, while the Shirmanians get agriculture from the Narikis, as well as intentional immigration. Narik writing and language begins to supplant the Shirmanian dialects, gradually making the two islands into a single culture, albeit one of city-state collectives rather than a unified political entity. Kozarian Development While the Narikis and Shirmanians were developing agriculture, writing and sailing, the Kozars on the mainland were still mainly tribal hunter-gatherers. Contact between the coastal villages and the island peoples brings trade opportunities, stimulating the main river-port cities of the Ghacrow and Doressa region (amongst others) - there is also a city at the mouth of the Red River, but it is destroyed somewhere along the way by inter-Kozar warfare, flooding, or disease. The rivers are major trade routes, as Kozar hunters send goods downriver for trade, to obtain Shirmanian/Nariki tools, etc. Nariki (or perhaps Bailonese) writing reaches Alkavon and Kozaria, but true civilization does not tend to, because no one Mainland city can seem to get strong enough to keep its resources safe from its neighbors initially. On the fringes, tribes from other places cross the mountains and settle in Darnussia (and Darnussian tribes also cross). Conflict versus Cooperation A general theme runs through Darnussian early history - Narikaton was fractured, Shirmania was cooperative, Kozaria was plutocratic and Alkavon was aggressive. The result of this, both before and after civilization arrives, is that the Narikatonians had the most advanced warfare, because they had practiced it against each other for so long. Shirmanians, essentially, seldom made war. Most mainland Kozarians related more to trade than to anything else - their head gods even regulated trade (sorta a proto-Ferrengi idea) - and their wars were just skirmishes, as most of the individual tribes couldn't stomach the loss of more than a small handful of men before they had to capitulate. Eventually, a few tribes won often enough to have "foreign" conscripts to fight - the Alkrons were basically the badass of the badass at this, and forged the only relatively long-lasting empire - something of an Aztec-type model. Narikaton had the most advanced weapons and tactics, as they were in the sweet spot between war and peace - they had cities AND enemies (other Nariks). Shirmanians lagged in war, although they, like Kozarians, could hire henchmen and buy weapons with their relative wealth. Narikaton technology focused both on land and sea warfare, while Alkavon concentrated almost exclusively on land. Therefore, Alkavon fought mainly with spears and shields, while Narikaton developed projectiles for ship-to-ship combat (better arrows than the hunting arrows used on the continent, and use of fire with projectiles.) Shirmania dependency on Narikaton As Narikaton weaponry and tactics on the seas improved quickly, mainly for inter-Narik warfare, Shirmania did not. So when Malivian, Bailonese, and Nariks started raiding Shirmanian trade ships and sacking Shirmanian coastal towns, they tried to defend themselves, but largely failed and resorted to paying tribute to Nariks to protect them from the others. This pulls Shirmania politically into the orbit of the Narik city states - and gives more incentive to the Nariks to knock off their own neighbors, leading to the Unification war(s). Inter-Kozar warfare At about the time Darntus the Flying was learning to swing a sword, the Alkron tribe (a rare relatively long-lasting continental empire - into its third generation with only two civil wars!) was trying to get into the island game, famously attempting (and failing) an invasion of Nihaton. The Alkron threat basically forced the more peaceful southern Kozarians to unite - Doressa is the only true "civilized" city in on the Darnussian mainland - as a trade and religious union, led by the Grand Kozer. Their relative wealth lets them buy off more hostile border tribes to be shock troops in the field, slowing the Alkron spread. This is the status when Darntus first turns his eyes to the mainland - and essentially writes the first chapter of Darnussian history by conquering it. When Nariki troops use "modern" weapons to mow down the Alkrons, they fracture and scatter, with many turning to the Kozar for help. The Narikis have better technology, but the overwhelming manpower in Alkaron and Kozaria keeps them from holding any one spot for long. Eventually they figure out that the resistance is mainly religious in basis - the people keep listening to the Kozer and his followers. The solution is to capture the Kozer, and parade him around as Darntus' personal slave, after the battle of Doressa in 780. Lusitanian movements After the development of seafaring, the Lusitanians were rediscovered, and the islands were alternately used as a brief stop on long voyages for resupply, or for pirates hiding from navies. The native Lusitanians were relatively primitive still, and many would have been taken as slaves. Ultimately when they're freed, they form a community in Alkavon (the poorest of the five Duchies), still isolated by language but no longer "primitive." They perhaps take on a semi-mystical aura, sort of like what some people think of the Amerindians or the Gypsies as, sorta a hybrid. "Things were so much better when life was simpler, like it was for the Lusitanians." combined with a folk belief that Lusitanians had some psychic powers to contact the dead or something? Semetic movements Jewish migrants start from Beitenyu and move up into Darnussia for various reasons; trade opportunities and fleeing warfare being main among them. Their main destination within Darnussia is Clenon, the closest point to Beitenyu. There they form a Jewish enclave on the less-densely populated part of Shirmania. While they do spread out from there somewhat, Clenon remains the most Jewish part of Darnussia. At some point, the Migrant Islands also become Jewish, perhaps a Clenese soldier is granted his Barony there, or it's purchased, or something, and create the myth that the Migrant Islands were the path of Jews TO Beitenyu (which is where historical confusion comes from).